Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Giovanni Michiel, Co-Lord of Serifos

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Sandstein 11:02, 3 June 2020 (UTC)

Giovanni Michiel, Co-Lord of Serifos

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Giovanni Michiel, Co-Lord of Serifos (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)

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Likely non-notable, coverage I have found from secondary sources only seem to be trivial mentions. Lordship does not necessarily indicate notability—WP:POLITICIAN only presumes notability for politicians who have held international, national, or state/province–wide office, of which Serifos as a municipality is not. 17jiangz1 (talk) 09:45, 27 May 2020 (UTC)

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. 17jiangz1 (talk) 09:45, 27 May 2020 (UTC)

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of History-related deletion discussions. 17jiangz1 (talk) 09:45, 27 May 2020 (UTC)

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Greece-related deletion discussions. North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 15:03, 27 May 2020 (UTC)

• Delete. This article, which was created 11 years ago, does not have enough information to be useful to readers. The only date in the article is the year of his marriage, not when he was born or died. The article says that he was "co-lord of Serifos", but the article Serifos says nothing about the island having been governed by lords or co-lords. If he was a co-lord, presumably he must have served alongside another co-lord, but the other co-lord's name is not given here. The article says that Giovanni Michiel "married in 1424 the daughter of Niccolo Crispo from Negropont". But Niccolo Crispo's ten children are mentioned in the article about him, and each of his daughters is mentioned there as marrying someone else -- not Giovanni Michiel. The article says that after Michiel's first wife died, he married "the daughter of another Euboean feudatory" -- with no indication of who that was. I realize that information about 15th century people may be in short supply, but, for example, the article about Michiel's purported father-in-law Nicholas Crispo, Lord of Syros at least provides a date of birth, date of death, and the name of his wife. This is an article about a person with similar social status, from the same era and same geographic area, but it has none of those pieces of information. --Metropolitan90 (talk) 15:36, 27 May 2020 (UTC)

@Metropolitan90:. The article list as its source Karl Hopf's, Veneto-Byzantinische Analekten (1859) p. 77; in fact it is a summary of what Hopf writes (which is not much either). Obviously "Giovanni" was a member of the Michieli (in plural), the Venetian patrician family it:Michiel, "which contributed three doges to Venice" in 11th-12th cent. (Kenneth M. Setton, A History of the Crusades: The Impact of the Crusades on the Near East, p. 434). Hopf provides info about many members of the family involved in the Archipelago, and describes how "Giovanni II." Michiel after an unhappy incident with Giovanni delo Cavo (John de lo Cavo; note that usually several Giovannis from those days are known as "Johns" in English historiography) set foot on Serifos (p.75). "Our" Giovanni, "Giovanni IV." (cf. p. 77) was son of "Allesundro Michieli" and he was -according to Hopf's narration- "Mithesitzer der Insel", co-owner of the Isle of Serifos. Hopf continues by referring to a relation with the "duke family of Naxos" thru his (first) marriage with the daughter of "Nicolo Crispo of Negroponte", and then, after the death of her, he married another woman, from Euboea, perhaps a daugher of Nicolaos Protimos (Νικόλαος Προθυμός = the last archbishop of Athens under Latin rule). "Giovanni IV." died childless in Negreponte (see Chalcis), Euboea. That's all we get to know about him from Hopf. I don't know how accurate is all that -we need a modern reliable source on the subject. ǁǁǁ ǁ Chalk19 (talk) 15:23, 28 May 2020 (UTC)

• Delete -- There might be a case for an article on the medieval lords of Serifios, possibly listing them in the article on the island. The question is whether being lord of this island is enough for notability. I compare this with peerages in England, where there is a list article for every peerage, but not for the lordship of every manor. Peterkingiron (talk) 14:10, 31 May 2020 (UTC)
• Delete. Per my previous comment, and per User's Peterkingiron point above. ǁǁǁ ǁ Chalk19 (talk) 07:32, 3 June 2020 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.